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Soundcheck Smackdown: Aces of Bass

Tuesday, August 12, 2008

In the rock world, bass guitar is a bit like Rodney Dangerfield: no respect. Bassists often live in the shadow of flashy guitarists and charismatic singers. Now, some of rock's most successful acts -- the White Stripes, the Yeah Yeah Yeahs and the Black Keys among them -- don't even bother with a bass player. In another Soundcheck Smackdown, New Yorker pop music critic Sasha Frere-Jones and Bass Player magazine senior editor Jonathan Herrera debate the importance of bass guitar in rock.

Tell us: In rock music, is bass guitar expendable ... or essential?

Our blog: John Schaefer on the bass controversy

Guests:

Jonathan Herrera and Sasha Frere- Jones

Comments [39]

Jumpy from da 'hood


You treated the concept of rock bands with bassists like it was an exciting new concept. It is not. Going back to the Fendermen, the Doors, Young Rascals, the Seeds, the Cramps, the Flat Duo Jets you will find it is an old idea! I just DJed with a band called Beki & the Bullets: singer, guitarist, drummer and...iPod!Jumpy

Aug. 16 2008 08:16 PM
Dan from NYC

That was a good listen..
I thought it would have been a bit more rowdy and confrontational...but the thing that stuck with me was the mention that all the bands listed in this article have done something to fill in the bass frequency....so these tunes might not have a bassist..they have done something to emulate bass...
They can never eliminate the bass from Rock..thats just some crazy sh*t !!

Aug. 12 2008 02:52 PM
CSM

um...to the ppl that don't hear bass guitar on the Doors studio albums (with the exception of the 1st record), go listen again. live, yes Ray did it, but in the studio...c'mon ppl - Jerry Scheff on LA Woman...enough said.

Aug. 12 2008 02:52 PM
Zak from Brooklyn, NY

Tool? Really? Greatest living rock band?

Aug. 12 2008 02:38 PM
caramia from brooklyn

i think bass players are extremely sexy, don't listen to that other guy!

also, i am a pretty big fan of the yeah yeah yeahs' music, and i didn't know that they don't have a bass player. they sound like they do and like your commentator said, those bands, including the white stripes all have that same sound that sounds like it does have a heavy bass, although might be swapped out with a synth or something similar.

Aug. 12 2008 02:37 PM
Arabella Kauffmann from Brooklyn

The wonderful world of music without bass-no steady rhythm, no low end noise/grit/funk/spit/growl, no awareness of simple sound pinpointed perfectly to match a singers tone or a drummers pocket, no heavy, no heart, no good. Wake up! Stop listening to cereal box homogenized 4/4 riff rock and reconnect to the bass,the low tones that will free us up to think outside of the standard guitar and vocal hero worship. Changing times, changing minds.

Aug. 12 2008 02:36 PM
jj from nyc

this is a joke, right?

Aug. 12 2008 02:36 PM
serafina from bushwick

house music would be nothing without the bass.

Aug. 12 2008 02:34 PM
Bill


Two reasons why we need bass: Tal Walkenfeld

Aug. 12 2008 02:33 PM
scnex from harlem

don't forget that Hendrix played the bass in the chitlin circuit...

Aug. 12 2008 02:33 PM
ab

Peter Hook of Joy Division/New Order

particularly where it concerns Joy Division, he created a sound which was much imitated years afterward

Aug. 12 2008 02:30 PM
Caryn Lombardo from Brooklyn, NY

Chuck,
You are so dead-on about Umami! Although, I think they just played their last show last month. Brian L. is moving to Chicago. They sure did RULE, though.

But wait, if it's low end you're after - have you heard the band Royal Pink? Two bass players, a drummer, and a singer. A bit poppier than Umami, but still...

Aug. 12 2008 02:30 PM
donovan

without the bass we would not have the greatest living rock band, Tool.
The bass on their albums is an integral part of the whole.

Aug. 12 2008 02:28 PM
chris o from new york city

For people like me who do not notice the bass but probably would notice its absence, you have to look to classic 3-piece bands like the Minutemen and Rush. With those bands, which use minimal dubbing on their songs so their live shows capture the recording, the bass is paramount.

Aug. 12 2008 02:28 PM
gary0 from NJ

sure it makes sense the bass has disappeared. it was gone in the 80's when the guitar player was mixing the records.

speaking as a recording engineer, the bass instrument is the hardest one to get right. the window between too loud and too soft is very small. many of the bands in the new generation have no sense of history either musically or technically. multiply this by all the things already discussed and you have a movement.

"When Doves Cry" had no bass on it. hip hop relies heavily on the bass. even bluegrass, the most technically challenging new music afloat, employs bass extensively. a way to differentiate the style of music is to prune the difficult child out of the band.

and the guitars, with 4 x 12 cabinets shouting and synths with rich bottom end occupy the sonic range of the bass. since it's hard to get a bass right, why bother. makes sense when you look at it.....

Aug. 12 2008 02:28 PM
eric from manhattan

Let's not be coy - don't these bass-less indie bands choose not to have a bass player for purely visual reasons or to be deliberately "unconventional"?

Aug. 12 2008 02:28 PM
david from Montclair NJ

If the bass is expendible, why are there bass boosters on home audio equipment, separate floor woofers in component speaker systems, and those tooth-filling, rattling bass thumps when many cars drive by. Surely the bass is appreciated.

Aug. 12 2008 02:25 PM
Joe from Battery Park City

I'm surprised no one has mentioned two classic bass-heavy bands: The Red Hot Chili Peppers and Primus. They clearly raised the level of bass virtuosity to new levels, at least in the public mind...

Aug. 12 2008 02:24 PM
Ted Shred from Atlanta

Two sides of the coin from Athens, GA.

FLAT DUO JETS - no bass, no problem.. Insane duo influenced White Stripes and on and on. Look up Dexter Romwebber or FDJ's on youtube for a hoot.

On the other hand, REM's Mike Mills is so critical to the melody and interplays in a fundamental way to complete the sound in so many ways. He's the ultimate 4th man in my garage band fantasy league.
- see the intro to Driver 8 for an example.

Bass is critical, really. Though I did have a female friend Carla Ulbrich that used to play Tuba in all sorts of musical projects, so you just never know how to best get that low end - again with Athens - the B52's began without a bassist but the keyboard sounded pretty damn good in lieu of....

Aug. 12 2008 02:24 PM
A Dude from NYC

@Chandler Wells

That's an interesting point - I think many more people are playing their music through crappy computer speakers, which is somewhat related to what you are saying.

Aug. 12 2008 02:23 PM
Tod Hedrick from NYC

As a young bass player, I remember the bassist from Aerosmith saying that the bass player was really the one who got everyone's rear end moving on the dance floor. The thing that's happened with most styles if folk music is that they've gotten more and more away from dancing. The bands that emphasize an important rhythmic feel require a bass.

Another thing I've noticed with the bands that feature they bass is they all leave room for the bass in the mix...no keyboards in the low register, lots of space in the guitar part, etc.

Aug. 12 2008 02:23 PM
eric from manhattan

The John Spencer Blues explosion got their lineup from Hounddog Taylor and the Houserockers - great boogie/blues combo

Aug. 12 2008 02:23 PM
Tom Capasso (bassist) from East Meadow, NY

There is a mentality that a bassist brings to a band. The role of marrying rhythm and melody comes with many other factors that you won't see when listening (or watching) a band. The bassist is often the glue for the entire band. They are usually the ones carrying tools, tape, extra cables, etc.

Aug. 12 2008 02:22 PM
A Dude from NYC

I should say, I don't think bass is absolutely necessary for to have "soul" and it can be replaced by something else, not only in that frequency.

Aug. 12 2008 02:22 PM
tanya from Brooklyn NY

i have seen the band Theo And The Skyscrapers with a bass player and without one and i honestly didn't notice when they played without one. Their shows are so theatrical and entrancing i get lost in the energy and visuals....

Aug. 12 2008 02:22 PM
Chandler Wells from Brooklyn


I wonder if the exploration of bands without a bass guitar relates to or somehow embraces the decreased sound quality of MP3's and compressed digital files, which often seem to minimize the deeper sounds of songs.

Aug. 12 2008 02:22 PM
jon from brooklyn

On the other hand, there's Morphine...

Aug. 12 2008 02:21 PM
JPVIDEO from NEW JERSEY

Remember the DOORS didn't have a bass player. I have no problem with the electric bass but, the sound of the double bass drives me up the wall when they do solos. I run away when they whip out the bow and think they are cello players. What a horrible sound like gastrointestinal discomfort.

Aug. 12 2008 02:20 PM
Chuck from Brooklyn

Umami from Brooklyn is a great two bass and drummer trio.

Aug. 12 2008 02:20 PM
Aaron from Brooklyn

I always thought that the white stripes were huge into base...."7 nation army" is pretty much all base...isnt it?

Aug. 12 2008 02:20 PM
A Dude from NYC

Hey.

I don't particularly like the bass over other instruments, so I don't think I have a bias, but I do appreciate bass.

I have noticed lack of bass for some time now, and while I do think it is because bass is not quite as essential as other instruments, and less players makes it easier to have a band, I think there is another component, which speaks to the state of contemporary popular music :

It has no soul. The bass is often the soul of a song. Bands can become successful with no bass. You can hear it in their voices - it's all posturing and no substance. Anyone with a sense of real soul can tell these strained voices are all an act. And the lack of bass backs up that feeling.

Aug. 12 2008 02:15 PM
Bozzel Dune - Bassist from Oaklanc, CA

The White Stripes would be much better with bass guitar or bass synth! Jack's a great riffer, but it gets boring fast with one string player.

Aug. 12 2008 02:15 PM
Matt from Manhattan

If it came to any of the bands being talked about or the bass, I'd say the bands are way more expendable to rock than the bass will ever be.

Aug. 12 2008 02:11 PM
Dave Lewis from NYC

Don't forget that the Doors managed quite well without a bass player, due to the masterful musicianship of Ray Manzarek, who covered the bass part on his keyboard. The low end sounded ust fine.

Aug. 12 2008 02:05 PM
Joe from Battery Park City

Sigh... another fake controversy...

Aug. 12 2008 02:04 PM
Rich from East Village

How many string bass players does it take to change a light bulb?
None; the piano player can do that with his left hand.

Aug. 12 2008 02:02 PM
Dan from NYC

You know the old saying about bass players -"They only notice us when we are not there."

There is absolutely no way bass is expendable in rock music. That dynamic between the bassist and the drummer is too important to eliminate... The bass is usually the soul of many tunes.

I am looking forward to hearing this debate and Sashas position....I am also curious to hear why the bands mentioned chose not to have a bassist - for artistic reasons - economic reasons or they could not find a bassist that worked well with their music???

Johnathan...dont take any BS from Sasha...

Aug. 12 2008 12:11 PM
Jeffrey Slott from East Elmhurst

You must be joking with this, right? Just because some acts can do without a certain instrument does not detract from that instrument's importance overall. Joe Jackson made an album without any guitars. John Mayall made an album without drums. So what?
Think Paul McCartney, James Jamerson, John Entwistle, Bootsy Collins, Larry Graham, Carole Kaye... need I go on?

Aug. 12 2008 09:12 AM
Banjo from Michigan

Of course you need a bass, how else could Spinal Tap do "Big Bottom"?

Aug. 12 2008 12:15 AM

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